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Decision on PvE Vs. PvP

Offline Mike

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Decision on PvE Vs. PvP
« on: November 24, 2013, 07:50:51 PM »
Okay guys! Announcement time!

As of the next reboot, the server is going PvE - with a TWIST!

The rule will be:

* PvE only - NO PvP except in the designated areas:

    - Berizino city PvP zone
    - NWAF and large surrounding area is a PvP area, including a new small lootable town
    - The PvP areas are marked on the map
    - Warning messages appear on entry/exit of PvP area(s).
    - Do NOT shoot out of a PvP area at players, OR shoot INTO a PvP area from outside!
    - If you get killed in a PvP area, do not complain in side about it - you go in a PvP area, you're fair game for bandits.


* All roaming AI now have the same skin! (to reduce risk of accidental PvP)
    - AI at missions etc have random skin still, but not the city/roaming AI

* IF someone enters your base without permission, then you may shoot them.

The server will be down for around 20 to 40mins during the next reboot for the above updates.

We realise some of you may not like this, but it's not just about the banditry - we can't seem to have PvP without about 20 to 40mins of side-chat agro afterwards, which sometimes escalates into mini-wars, and yet more side-chat agro!

We are running with this as a possible solution, and will see what everyone thinks of it.

IF players feel they have to leave the server because of this then we're sorry about that and we hope there's no hard feelings - It wasn't our intention, however at the same time we are doing what we feel will be for the benefit of the server as a whole.

* Side note: IF your base is inside a PvP area (we have tried to avoid that!), then you will be offered help to move if you wish (and materials to help!). This shouldn't happen hopefully but sometimes bases are built faster than we can catalogue them!
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 11:45:22 PM by Mike »

Offline Mike

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Re: Decision on PvE Vs. PvP
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2013, 09:01:50 PM »
Okay all... server back up!

Let me know what you think, and remember... Bandit town is in the PvP area - get shot in ANY PvP area, don't go moaning over side :D

UPDATES:

Bandit town isn't AI bandits - it's just a new town that's within the PvP zone...

IF anyone fires upon you or kills you outside of the PvP zone, let an admin know and the player will be warning or banned depending on the severity of the situation. If you shoot do shoot back then we will need to check logs etc to double-check who shot first, so please try to avoid this if possible.

NOTE: Remember, the AI now have a different skin to players! Here is the new bandit AI skin (NOT the mission AI, just roaming AI):

« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 09:25:37 PM by Mike »

Offline olafshruber

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Re: Decision on PvE Vs. PvP
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2013, 10:23:54 PM »


We realise some of you may not like this, but it's not just about the banditry - we can't seem to have PvP without about 20 to 40mins of side-chat agro afterwards, which sometimes escalates into mini-wars, and yet more side-chat agro!



Can't you just do what like BMRF does(and pretty much every server that survives for more than 6 months), no craptalking in side when you die/kill player. Some jsut turn side chat off altogether. Seems like you did a whole of a lot of work really for nothing. I'm sure ppl still gonna do the aforementioned side-chat wars even when killed in the designate areas.


Offline Mordecai The Fox

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Re: Decision on PvE Vs. PvP
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2013, 01:23:44 AM »


We realise some of you may not like this, but it's not just about the banditry - we can't seem to have PvP without about 20 to 40mins of side-chat agro afterwards, which sometimes escalates into mini-wars, and yet more side-chat agro!



Can't you just do what like BMRF does(and pretty much every server that survives for more than 6 months), no craptalking in side when you die/kill player. Some jsut turn side chat off altogether. Seems like you did a whole of a lot of work really for nothing. I'm sure ppl still gonna do the aforementioned side-chat wars even when killed in the designate areas.

Well, by making it a non-pvp server unless it's in the key areas it should stop a lot of the crap talking after getting killed.  And, if I see it happening I will start flexing my admin powers.  As for removing side...that isn't an option.  We like it being there so people can chat and help each other.

Offline Mike

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Re: Decision on PvE Vs. PvP
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2013, 02:06:48 AM »

Can't you just do what like BMRF does(and pretty much every server that survives for more than 6 months), no craptalking in side when you die/kill player. Some jsut turn side chat off altogether. Seems like you did a whole of a lot of work really for nothing. I'm sure ppl still gonna do the aforementioned side-chat wars even when killed in the designate areas.

Hi,

Thanks for your input, however we have decided how to deal with this situation and are going to see how it plays out. I think (HOPE!) players that have been with us for a while trust us to make sure we adapt in whatever way is needed to make sure the server is a cool place. We'll continue to work hard at that, no fear.

As for 'pretty much every server that survives more than 6 months' - Nah, sorry man that's not true. There are plenty of friendly, non-trash talk PvE Epoch servers that have been around for ages. There are also servers that ALLOW trolling that have gone the distance - and continue to do so!

Our server has probably been going for at least 2 years now - we're not going anywhere ;) (I'm sure Mordi will correct me on the dates! He's got a better memory than me!).

What it comes down to is players finding a server that matches their gameplay style. What is one persons ideal server is anothers idea of hell! - However far from being any single thing that dictates whether a server sticks aroudn for 'more than 6 months', it's more a collection of things - having active and friendly admins that are willing to fix glitches is definitely one part of the puzzle - a part we do try hard to make sure we complete :)

Regarding us having done 'A whole lot of work for nothing'  - Sorry, disagree here again. We put a lot of work in yes, but not for nothing - to make the server better. IF some changes have an adverse effect then we'll re-visit the changes - that said, we're usually pretty good at pulling something good out of any situation.

PLUS - there's a lot planned too that I think people will like ;)

So, on the topic of complaining about being killed in PvP zones (which I think your point re: having done work about nothing was about), People will be told not to complain if they get killed in a PvP area as, well, they walked/drove into that area knowingly.

If people do trash talk and grief over side, and keep doing it, they will be warning. If they continue I'm afraid it will be a race between myself and Mordi to reach for the kick n ban hammer. Obviously who gets kicked/banned depends on who causes the grief (difference between someone complaining when killed and a bandit taunting over side - the guilty party - in terms of trolling - will be warned, then banned.)

AAAAnnnyyywayyy! 2am here and I have work in a few hours, so I'm off :D

Thanks again for your input - even if I disagree with some points, it's all feedback :)


« Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 02:10:33 AM by Mike »

Offline marethyu

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Re: Decision on PvE Vs. PvP
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2013, 05:50:49 PM »
Just from looking at the map of the pvp areas it looks as if they are not existent. Nobody will go to the north one because it is basically the nwaf and there are 50 ai up there roaming about so its pvpve and the odds of two players being there at the same time are slim to none, and i dont know anybody who hangs out in berezino like that but having set zones as such leaves way to someone with nothing to do sitting there for hours just popping anybody who walks in but that wont even happen because there is nothing in that stretch of berezino worthwhile. talking to a lot of players they have said since epoch they cant remember looting a city for gear as missions and such provide enough for many lives.
if there is going to be any pvp line it should be more like jurassic park. All of the bigger animals are further away from the coast where the herbivores are camped up closer to the coast. In any post apocolyptic movie as well everybody knows where the most popular places to go for loot and such are but they also know that those areas are the most dangerous in terms of other people being there as well as the zombies. part of the intensity for dayz players is other players. when everybody first played they feared the zombies...until they ran into another player. Then the zombies weren't so scary anymore. The ai arent the same, they slowly turn they dont check corners and there is no chance of a friendly ai. Most people on this server are friendly and enjoy a good bandit hunt. the butt hurtness of a few people after getting killed and raging for an hour isnt worth taking away a large aspect of the game that is part of the draw of the game. If it is side banter and miniwars that are the problem there is nothing wrong with a 24 hour or few hour kick, it gives time to chill out because really there is nothing in this game that cant be replaced and even though i am guilty of whining about it i went and did what everybody on the server should and go play default dayz for a while and realize that your car that you are driving is a luxury and being able to replace it with the degree of ease available isnt anything compared to the amount of scavenging we all had to do to repair a car before epoch, and that would be for a pos lada.

Someone, i forget who, had an idea i was intrigued by. A strip of land dedicated to being friendly. It could zip right down the center of the map to include stary for people who want to go to the market in peace. And anybody who wants to reside outside that line so be it, it is your ass(not so much the base camping that is low). Just the similarity to my virtual line setting the coast away from the rest. Honesty Stary should be in unfriendly territory it has the black market dealer. If you want to get something from a black market it usually involves a shady deal ie going into an unfriendly zone.  But really 98% of the server is friendly and if there are a few prowlers about they are largely outnumbered and it is rarely an issue.

Offline marethyu

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Re: Decision on PvE Vs. PvP
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2013, 06:05:54 PM »
and furthermore as to there not being a reason to go into the northern pvp area. if you are making basically an arena. put something worthwhile in it. and by worthwhile i mean something 10 plaers would risk their skins for. namely after ever non-whitelist hour restart have a keyed vehicle spawn there unlocked or locked because you can get the key out anyway, that otherwise you cannot get in epoch, like the m2 humvees that the gun is controled remotely so you down even have to expose yourself or something like that.

Offline Mordecai The Fox

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Re: Decision on PvE Vs. PvP
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2013, 07:25:02 PM »
and furthermore as to there not being a reason to go into the northern pvp area. if you are making basically an arena. put something worthwhile in it. and by worthwhile i mean something 10 plaers would risk their skins for. namely after ever non-whitelist hour restart have a keyed vehicle spawn there unlocked or locked because you can get the key out anyway, that otherwise you cannot get in epoch, like the m2 humvees that the gun is controled remotely so you down even have to expose yourself or something like that.

The M2 remote control gun is something we've discussed as a prize or something you can't get without a huge risk.  That said...we went with the PvE server seeing as the vote ended up being a tie.  We're at least going to try it and see how it works.  I've already personally seen a difference myself.  People who weren't helping each other are now doing so...I saw that this morning while I was quietly monitoring the server. 

As for the side fights...that's why we did this.  I personally got tired of seeing it just spiral out of control and it did so every day when bandits were on.  We'll see how this works out for now before making any changes. 

Offline Fleck

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Re: Decision on PvE Vs. PvP
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2013, 10:21:48 PM »
I haven't played the server recently to see the PVP zone. But if it is as small as it sounds....really needs a incentive...I have little reason to go to a small PVP area with nothing but maybe getting another player's gear which I could easily get from one mission. I also have a quick question...why was the bandit camo changed? Why not leave it as regular civlian bandit? (not bandit camo) I just think that camo looks badass and would love to wear it =P thats all...no big deal.

Offline Mike

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Re: Decision on PvE Vs. PvP
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2013, 11:11:11 PM »
I haven't played the server recently to see the PVP zone. But if it is as small as it sounds....really needs a incentive...I have little reason to go to a small PVP area with nothing but maybe getting another player's gear which I could easily get from one mission. I also have a quick question...why was the bandit camo changed? Why not leave it as regular civlian bandit? (not bandit camo) I just think that camo looks badass and would love to wear it =P thats all...no big deal.

Hey :)

The idea with the AI skin change is that if we're PvE, and people risk a kick/ban for PvP in non-PVP zones, we wanted to reduce the chance of accidental PvP (killing AI only to realise it was a player!).

This way the roaming AI wear non-standard skins :)

Offline 2yys

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Re: Decision on PvE Vs. PvP
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2013, 12:37:37 AM »
Sweet looks good!!  ;)

Offline CamoDog

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Re: Decision on PvE Vs. PvP
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2013, 01:04:54 AM »
 :'( I have a big issue with the decision to change the mission. I totally understand this is your server Mike and you guys can change and do whatever you guys want. But I have a hard time understanding where you guys are coming from with the "trolling & side chat" shit going on.. We started playing here just as you guys banned those guys. And since then, i thought everyone plays great! People do get rides and help from others.. Maybe not then when you had those assholes but since... Definately Since.. I usually play with the intent of having to fire my weapon on someone. I treat every encounter differently and depending on if they shoot, or make contact, or if im carrying gold... I make a call on the fly weather or not i will engage. I have never played as an asshole bandit, nor have the people i roll with. I haven't seen much assholery since those guys were dealt with and now i'm dealing with a crew that's scouting for another server. I enjoy playing here a lot and have had a lot of good times with the community here. Ive been in multi helicopter engagements, i've seized missions with friendly players and its all changing and falling apart on my side..

I like the idea of the Bandit town, and having zones. Although, I believe the zones should be reversed. Instead of pvp zones, you should have large pve zones, the rest being pvpable. That way people can build in the pve zone if they wanna be safe. And others can stroll around being ready to fight every where else. And I also think the Zones should be "square" so its easier to identify if your actually in that zone. Anyways guys im torn. I really like it here. I dont understand where you guys are coming from on those points. I feel like your changing something that was headed in the right direction anyways, and had good things going. We feel as we are being punished for those assholes. Im fully capable playing bandit with out the assholery. Not all of us are 10.

Please get back to me about these ideas and what you may think.

CamoDog

Ps..
Do you not think having to bring in the ban hammer and looking into logs for pvp kills and whatever comes with that. Is just more annoying then some bitching over side?
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 01:25:53 AM by CamoDog »

Offline Mike

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Re: Decision on PvE Vs. PvP
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2013, 02:28:34 PM »
Thanks for the feedback Camo - We're running with the current settings for a bit, and will be reviewing after a bit - We have some stuff to add this coming weekend, and will be making a few tweaks then hopefully.

Re: Side chat after banditing - I had to step in only last week and tell people to chill the fuck down due to person x killing person y, then abotu 20mins of side-chat spam between them arguing who was in the right - then it starts to get personal and we have to step in. This is in part what we're trying to avoid. I've also seen new players get completely blanked (which is fine sometimes by a shame when it happens a lot) - Whereas since the PvE - Admins have noticed more new folks getting helped out.

We're reviewing though don't worry, and some changes are already planned. We can't take everyone's requests on board but we are going to take some on-board ;)

Bear with us, and keep the feedback coming as we add new stuff? :D

Thanks again Camo!

:'( I have a big issue with the decision to change the mission. I totally understand this is your server Mike and you guys can change and do whatever you guys want. But I have a hard time understanding where you guys are coming from with the "trolling & side chat" shit going on.. We started playing here just as you guys banned those guys. And since then, i thought everyone plays great! People do get rides and help from others.. Maybe not then when you had those assholes but since... Definately Since.. I usually play with the intent of having to fire my weapon on someone. I treat every encounter differently and depending on if they shoot, or make contact, or if im carrying gold... I make a call on the fly weather or not i will engage. I have never played as an asshole bandit, nor have the people i roll with. I haven't seen much assholery since those guys were dealt with and now i'm dealing with a crew that's scouting for another server. I enjoy playing here a lot and have had a lot of good times with the community here. Ive been in multi helicopter engagements, i've seized missions with friendly players and its all changing and falling apart on my side..

I like the idea of the Bandit town, and having zones. Although, I believe the zones should be reversed. Instead of pvp zones, you should have large pve zones, the rest being pvpable. That way people can build in the pve zone if they wanna be safe. And others can stroll around being ready to fight every where else. And I also think the Zones should be "square" so its easier to identify if your actually in that zone. Anyways guys im torn. I really like it here. I dont understand where you guys are coming from on those points. I feel like your changing something that was headed in the right direction anyways, and had good things going. We feel as we are being punished for those assholes. Im fully capable playing bandit with out the assholery. Not all of us are 10.

Please get back to me about these ideas and what you may think.

CamoDog

Ps..
Do you not think having to bring in the ban hammer and looking into logs for pvp kills and whatever comes with that. Is just more annoying then some bitching over side?

Offline Mordecai The Fox

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Re: Decision on PvE Vs. PvP
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2013, 03:36:52 PM »
Thanks for the feedback Camo - We're running with the current settings for a bit, and will be reviewing after a bit - We have some stuff to add this coming weekend, and will be making a few tweaks then hopefully.

Re: Side chat after banditing - I had to step in only last week and tell people to chill the fuck down due to person x killing person y, then abotu 20mins of side-chat spam between them arguing who was in the right - then it starts to get personal and we have to step in. This is in part what we're trying to avoid. I've also seen new players get completely blanked (which is fine sometimes by a shame when it happens a lot) - Whereas since the PvE - Admins have noticed more new folks getting helped out.

We're reviewing though don't worry, and some changes are already planned. We can't take everyone's requests on board but we are going to take some on-board ;)

Bear with us, and keep the feedback coming as we add new stuff? :D

Thanks again Camo!

:'( I have a big issue with the decision to change the mission. I totally understand this is your server Mike and you guys can change and do whatever you guys want. But I have a hard time understanding where you guys are coming from with the "trolling & side chat" shit going on.. We started playing here just as you guys banned those guys. And since then, i thought everyone plays great! People do get rides and help from others.. Maybe not then when you had those assholes but since... Definately Since.. I usually play with the intent of having to fire my weapon on someone. I treat every encounter differently and depending on if they shoot, or make contact, or if im carrying gold... I make a call on the fly weather or not i will engage. I have never played as an asshole bandit, nor have the people i roll with. I haven't seen much assholery since those guys were dealt with and now i'm dealing with a crew that's scouting for another server. I enjoy playing here a lot and have had a lot of good times with the community here. Ive been in multi helicopter engagements, i've seized missions with friendly players and its all changing and falling apart on my side..

I like the idea of the Bandit town, and having zones. Although, I believe the zones should be reversed. Instead of pvp zones, you should have large pve zones, the rest being pvpable. That way people can build in the pve zone if they wanna be safe. And others can stroll around being ready to fight every where else. And I also think the Zones should be "square" so its easier to identify if your actually in that zone. Anyways guys im torn. I really like it here. I dont understand where you guys are coming from on those points. I feel like your changing something that was headed in the right direction anyways, and had good things going. We feel as we are being punished for those assholes. Im fully capable playing bandit with out the assholery. Not all of us are 10.

Please get back to me about these ideas and what you may think.

CamoDog

Ps..
Do you not think having to bring in the ban hammer and looking into logs for pvp kills and whatever comes with that. Is just more annoying then some bitching over side?

Pretty much I was going to say the same thing that Mike said.  Unfortunately, the players don't see what we see behind the scenes.  Sadly, it was getting worse day by day.  For every one good deed I hear about from the players I was seeing 10 bad deeds take it's place.  We'll at least try this out and see how it works and if it needs to be changed then we will do so. 

For the record, I was on the fence about the PvE-PvP change as well.  Mike was too...we tried a few servers and saw how they were and said "Well...let's give it a try." we've done some things we thought we wouldn't like but the community voted for it and it turned out for the better that they won the votes.  :)  Always remember most servers don't even ask the player base really.  We really do ask for input (provided it's true input and not bitching) and have votes to determine that type of thing.

Shane

Re: Decision on PvE Vs. PvP
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2013, 05:05:56 PM »
I'm sorry to destract but this made me laugh for some reason lmao. Anyways continue on with your days lol.

We really do ask for input (provided it's true input and not bitching)
[/quote]

 

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