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Petunia going PvE Only?

Offline Mike

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Petunia going PvE Only?
« on: November 17, 2013, 10:45:52 PM »
We like our little server - and we like our players too!

Thing is though, it has on occasion recently gone a bit less friendly. Seems to be okay at the moment actually, but we have had times when it's started turning into the sort of server we don't want to play on, often stemming from PvP (x kills y, y feels aggrieved, goes after x... 3 days later people are camping each others bases both feeling justified and nobody can quite remember where it started!).

For that reason the admins have been discussing going PvE only for some time. We've tested a few other PvE servers and to our surprise quite enjoyed them. I say to our surprise as we've always been largely against PvE only due to feeling it less realistic!

However after testing the water on other servers (some 30 to 40+ pop) they were actually pretty cool, and with much less bickering.

So here we are - considering it sooo strongly that I'm putting a post up on the forums about it.

Here's what we're considering adding to the rules:

* PvE only - no PvP (BUT with more mini-devils - as described in another thread to challenge folks if the want that)
* Mature gameplay only - no childish bitchyness

There will be exceptions to the no PvP rule - main one being if someone is in your base uninvited.

We're hoping that this will help the server be the fun place we like it to be. There's plenty of challenge with the AI, and if anyone thinks they are not tough enough, I can increase them yet further.

We also have lots more planned for the server which will hopefully keep it cool!

WOULD YOU LEAVE IF WE DID THIS? - Let us know here: http://www.petuniaserver.com/forums/changelog-server-development-board/would-you-leave-the-server-if-it-went-pve/
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 09:36:58 PM by Mike »

Offline Mike

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Re: Petunia going PvE Only?
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2013, 11:15:49 PM »
bump to top

Shane

Re: Petunia going PvE Only?
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2013, 01:21:40 AM »
Yea that would be cool there would just have to be a huge bump up in the ai stuff to do so as to draw new people to the server.

Offline 2yys

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Re: Petunia going PvE Only?
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2013, 01:22:52 AM »
bump to top
It sounds great, but how will you enforce this? 

Offline Mike

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Re: Petunia going PvE Only?
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2013, 02:31:51 AM »
Enforce the bump?! :D

PvE? By kick/warn on kill, ban to follow if repeated much.

We're considering a few options though, like anyone in your base uninvited = shoot at will, and possibly something like just one city that's designated as a 'hot zone' = PvP okay, enter at your own risk (although need to be careful with this re: boundaries etc. Could be a warning when entering, like at trader cities.

What do you think to the idea?


bump to top
It sounds great, but how will you enforce this?

Offline Bobthethurd

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Re: Petunia going PvE Only?
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2013, 03:20:19 AM »
I definitely dislike this.

PVE only and the server's general friendliness encourages people to play like idiots thinking it's just fine. People do silly stuff like not locking a door and complaining as if someone hacked to get inside their base. People do silly stuff like park their expensive, easily damaged, and until recently easily looted vehicles in plain sight and then complain when it's been set on cinder blocks with the trunk emptied out, the wheels stolen and all the glass smashed out. And also shot a few times.

These are things you can ALREADY see on the server, and it's just PVE by player enforcement. Honestly what needs to happen is that there needs to be no rules except not to shoot at players when they're in their base and do not follow them around so you can jump them the moment they leave.

In every instance of people losing it, it's been "people are shooting me in my base" that's the problem. In fact occasionally it's people shooting you in your base with ROCKETS. Which is completely mental.

I personally am thinking about going bandit very seriously and when I do I intend to pretty much leave people alone, but if I run across a player, I will shoot on sight unless that player is in TS with me. I don't really intend to loot them, because the stuff I run with is relatively low-maintenance. I don't intend to use an M2, I may steal and sell their cars, if I shoot them, but I'm not going to fiddle around with anyone's bases, or really cannibalize their body for gear. If they can get back to their stuff, it'll probably all still be there unless they have some DMR ammo I can jack, assuming I do loot them. I don't, therefore, intend to shoot at passing cars or helicopters, or run with an AS50. If people get THAT butthurt at me I'm going to laugh at them, but probably not reply ingame. I'll continue to be a friendly recluse in chat like I am now and not bother anyone unless they happen by.

I really don't find it germane to rage about being killed in this game. occasionally something angers me, but it's generally something like having a chopper explode at random. Back when that first good bandit on the server came on, he shot my M2's tire near Berezino, shot me out of the turret because I was an idiot and didn't lay into the bushes I knew he was behind with the 50cal, and then stole the M2 to shoot at someone else. I didn't rage, I just ran back up to see if any of my stuff survived, which it didn't. Then I built back up. Oh well, I'll get him some other time, I thought.

Some of the stories Marethyu tells about his short foray into banditting also tell the story about how people are on this server. Some people fly in to hero's, someone with a 50cal obviously has a bead on the heli, shoots the engine to stop it taking off. All three people then run to Klen to buy an engine. Mareth goes up, checks out the chopper and steals some stuff from the trunk because they left NOBODY BEHIND to hide nearby and watch for the person who obviously just shot the chopper.

This is textbook idiocy that deserves to be exploited and it's why Mareth, Pip and I have rarely experienced game-ending bandits. Mareth pretty much never dies because he plays like a scared panda and at that time also had two thermal scoped weapons. I play similarly but lack thermal scopes, and I roll with pip, whose idiocy I generally reign in, and who is also a much better shot than me. Pip and I die to AIs fairly consistently and are rusty at PVP as well.

These players need to learn to play better and allowing some PVP would help considerably. Part of why I'm not a bandit yet is that I want a small group of one or two other players to roll with so that we can use more advanced tactics, and to have more eyes on target. And also to lend a little weight to the threat I pose.

I want people to play as scared as I do. I want people to order their inventories before going into a trader city , so they don't spend two hours messing around with gear there, the way I do. I want them to lock their car in between taking a backpack full of guns to the trader 100 feet away while INSIDE the trader city regardless of it being a rule to not steal inside a trade city the way I do.

I trust NO one I'm not speaking with directly on Teamspeak and I trust only Pip to not shoot me in the back.

I say no. Unequivocally. I'll probably turn to another server or go play ACE + ACRE instead, and watch for the server to take off the no-PVP rule. I don't mean that as a threat or anything, but I'm really not here to play friendly. The bots are too much about playing against the system and understanding how to exploit quirks in the AI. I want to fight players who can learn to anticipate tactics and deploy their own. There's a whole campaign based on fighting against Arma's crappy AI system and plenty of ACE missions about the same. I got tired of playing friendly before and now that I have time again I want to shoot at other people and have them shoot at me.

I sincerely hope I don't need another server for it, but if I do, I'll find one. I think any server I go to will be worse than this one, because you guys are ridiculous about modding this. It's like you get payed or something. Weirdoes. :P

Offline Raccoonticus

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Re: Petunia going PvE Only?
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2013, 04:16:34 PM »
Sorry that you feel we are all idiots Bob. I'll try not to trip on my laces anymore. I guess I am an idiot when a random ai spawns in stary next to the car dealer and shoots me in the back when I am supposed to be in a safe zone. Then someone loots my body and sells my vehice before I getback. I guess I am an idiot when I roll out my base and get lit up by an m2 so they can steal my armored suv. I had practiced safe base building so people couldn't glitch in. I snuck around in shadows. I took the long way  around And drove in trees for cover and managed to get nailed by a coward lying in wait by a trade city. My personal favorite was a douche who rammed me head on with an mtvr while I was in a pick up. Just 200m from my base. He ***WARNING - BANNED WORD*** my corpse. I have learned from experiences.  I just want to apologize for offending you with my idiocy.


I personally don't care anymore. Pve, pvp don't matter to me. I am making lemonade from the lemons.

Offline marethyu

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Re: Petunia going PvE Only?
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2013, 04:50:14 PM »
im not a panda lol i like to think of myself as a lemur

Offline marethyu

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Re: Petunia going PvE Only?
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2013, 04:52:29 PM »
as far as pve/pvp i dont care about pvp. I am waiting for another good bandit to pop up because they are unpredictable but not impossible to defeat, especially with the mass of friendlies that will hunt them.

Offline Bobthethurd

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Re: Petunia going PvE Only?
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2013, 05:57:13 PM »
Valid points about things Bobthethurd does not intend to do.

I personally don't care anymore. Pve, pvp don't matter to me. I am making lemonade from the lemons.

Those are things that are bannable offenses now, except for the ramming. It happens and sometimes you can't avoid it or you made a bad tactical decision and you missed your chance to avoid it. I've had my body hidden by a guy who stole my brand new M2 humvee way back when, which I wrote of in my post. I screwed up and did something dumb and he punished me for it. I know it's crap.

It sucks and it hurts your feelings and you do exactly that, you get over it and you keep playing. I have the added benefit of not really playing with incredibly broken weapons so if I kill you I'm not auto-aiming with an AS50 or a thermal L85 or something. I actually found you and shot you with a weapon that requires me to have eyes and look for you.

Sometimes you're just unlucky. Sometimes randomly you'll cross a field where another player happens to be and he sees you first. Those kind of situations are much more often an issue in large servers, but it can happen on this, as well.

My point about people on the server playing like idiots is that they are far too trusting and when someone comes on who is new they exploit the trust. Any player you see is an unknown quantity that can royally screw you over with about two mouse clicks. You need to remember that, even if most people are friendly. People get so mad at someone shooting them and go camp bases and this that and the other and it's pretty dumb.

What I feel the server needs is a few bandits who aren't out to be mean spirited dicks and that's what I'm planning on doing. I'm not here to make you mad, I'm here to force you to weigh risks vs rewards better. Everyone has so much materiel they're just stockpiling for the sake of it. Brendan and MBaker, for instance, are using weird guns just to get rid of ammo they've stocked up recently because they've RUN OUT OF SPACE, having five sheds worth of storage and a few tents and safes besides.

I respect that it takes work to get that stuff and I don't personally intend to set out to blow up or steal your vehicles. I may break them when they're being used against me, and I'm definitely going to shoot at you. Be prepared. If you really don't want to be shot at I'm not immune to being asked to stay clear when you're near a mission if you come on teamspeak to ask. If you're having a rough time or I've recently done you over I'll probably say sure and maybe help you clear the mission in exchange for the chance to get some ammo out of it.

I apologize for my bluntness as I did not mean to offend, nor do I believe I referred to you specifically, nor do I mean everyone except me. I can't play a proper hero to save my life. I'm terrible at it. I've been killed by other players so much on this mostly friendly server it's painful to recount, because of doing as others do and giving people the benefit of the doubt. Now I'm going to do what I know I'm good enough at, and hopefully you guys will benefit.

Hopefully you'll get into some firefights and survive even though it's crazy and intense and it scares the hell out of you. I might even give people a chance to return fire instead of putting a bullet through their chest out of nowhere because it'll be instructive and my gear is easy to replace. It's hard to miss a 400m shot with an m24, but sometimes it might be more fun to let you try to kill me, even if not missing is sortof the point.

I am and will remain a tactless douchebag, and I'm sorry if I offend you. I use the language I use to emphasize my point. I'll have a talk with Mike about my method of banditting and see if he likes it and will stick close to it to give you guys as much of a chance as I can manage while still remaining a credible threat.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 06:00:18 PM by Bobthethurd »

Offline CamoDog

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Re: Petunia going PvE Only?
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2013, 08:50:53 PM »
 ??? I'm personally not a fan of this idea. And nor are the other people I do business with here on this server. I think you guys already have a good thing going here. Population is good. The community is good. The fear of running into a Bandit out in the world is what this game is all about. Please dont change that.

Offline mbaker410

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Re: Petunia going PvE Only?
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2013, 08:51:28 PM »
So here is my $.02 ;D

I think as you (admins) already know it is a fine line between making everyone happy with the balance between PVP and PVE. I also think that there is actually a good number of those on the server that want more bandits and those who don't. But here are a few ideas that I think might help.

For starters the indestructible bases take care of a lot of the issues most people encounter in a typical Epoch server. Base building takes a lot of time and energy to gather supplies, build and secure your base. Most people can't be on 24/7 to protect their base so with them being indestructible it helps.

Bob has some good points despite his blunt delivery. The game was created using survival and military concepts. So in order to survive and defend yourself you need to be careful and tactical. If the server is overly PVE then you do tend to let your guard down. You tend to make the mistakes that Bob mentioned like leaving things unlocked or unsecured.

Let's think of this from a what if this was real life perspective. If a Zombie apocalypse did hit the first thing you would do is prepare to protect yourself an friends/family at all costs. So this is just like looting up as a fresh spawn. The second is to find strength in numbers. So you cautiously find other trustworthy and friendly survivors. That is if you yourself are friendly. Some will decide that in order to survive you need to kill and steal. The last part of survival is sustaining life in the apocalypse. This is where most of us are at now on the server. We have bases and supplies and we venture out to resupply or to challenge ourselves against the Ai.

We have a rather strong base of friendly groups on the server. So if we do end up getting a bunch of bandits on then we already have strength in numbers and more than enough supplies and firepower to defend ourselves. The best part about bandits is that they present a different challenge an the element of surprise. They also encourage more tactical approach to dayz.

A good example is that when we clear a mission we all just run up to the crates an start looting. A smart bandit would let you do all the work and then snipe you at the crates. In this case you need to do some surveillance prior to moving in on the crates. Designate a team member to cover you and keep security up.

However I think there tends to be some confusion as to what a bandit truly is in dayz or what it is intended to be. Most servers have cheaters, trolls and just plain out clowns. They have given bandits a bad rap. It's those who troll and kill you that should be banned. Or then ones that act friendly run up to you and shoot you in the head as you bloodbath them. I don't think it is in good taste to kill fresh spawns or unarmed players either but that depends on the situation. Even as a fresh spawn you should be tactical in your approach. The AI kill unarmed players all the time. It's just wrong place at the wrong time.

Now to my ideas...

AI: Make more AI bases and if possible vary the difficulty and skill of the AI. This will allow players to get better with combat. Place AI patrols in the goto bandit sniper locations. This way bandits have to work a little harder to get into their cozy sniper camping spots!


Changing Names: Don't allow previously friendlies on the server to change names and run as bandits. You have an unfair advantage and changing your name and acting as someone else is trolling. You have knowledge of bases, codes, locations of gear that you wouldn't otherwise. I think that if you have been a member for a while then you should new to register on the forum as a bandit that way you don't have a heads up on those who have previously trusted you.

Balance: I am not sure what is available at the bandit trader and if the gear is the same weapon and vehicle wise an if the costs are the same but make sure there is balance an that everyone is able to compete with each other.

So at the end of the day as much as I dislike being killed from a douche on sniper hill I think we have enough friendly players with M2s Helis and more than enough firepower to combat the bandits that may show up. Plus who doesn't think it would be fun to have a bandit clan on the server that we can all gang up on and exact our revenge!


iPhone!

Offline mbaker410

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Re: Petunia going PvE Only?
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2013, 08:59:44 PM »
I missed the part about my base and gear and as I would prefer not to broadcast what I do and don't have publicly! For the most part we stockpile weapons because you can never have enough guns and ammo I also give them out to others on the server. Just last night I resupplied raccoonticus for all his help with DC. He got back what he lost in addition to a substantial monetary reward.

The rest of the gear we have is money and building supplies and my intention is to use all of those supplies. Sell the weapons we don't use and invest in vehicles and other needs.

Not really sure why that was brought up but if you have ever seen an apocalypse film stockpiling supplies is the most important part of survival. Plus if you don't take the weapons they fall into the hands of bandits.

Offline marethyu

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Re: Petunia going PvE Only?
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2013, 09:02:19 PM »
When i killed ghost and cason i did just that. I sat 600m out and waited for them to loot they just ran up to the crates willy nilly and after first taking out the tire of the m2 i popped both of them. Genious banditing if you ask me but thats something that on a normal dayz server you see. On a default server you dont just run up to a heli crash as soon as you see it, sometimes it takes a good ten minutes of scouting first. Plus with the weaponry people have scouting a treeline isnt hard...thermal scopes highlight anybody there and most people that have been around a while have a stockpile of thermal weapons.

Offline Mike

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Re: Petunia going PvE Only?
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2013, 09:37:59 PM »
Okay, trying to get a cross section of opinion here, so posted this: http://www.petuniaserver.com/forums/changelog-server-development-board/would-you-leave-the-server-if-it-went-pve/

Anyone has a strong opinion on the matter, please do use that link & let us know! :)

 

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