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Petunia Server => SERVER DISCUSSION => Ban Appeals => Topic started by: marethyu on October 29, 2013, 09:29:06 PM

Title: Hugh jass and Byron
Post by: marethyu on October 29, 2013, 09:29:06 PM
Appeal won - BAN REMOVED.

EDIT: Ban appeal thread now live: http://www.petuniaserver.com/should-marethyu-be-allowed-back-on-the-server/ (http://www.petuniaserver.com/should-marethyu-be-allowed-back-on-the-server/) - So thread is closed.

I would just like an explanation of why Byron and I were banned. The reason posted was we really stirred things up which was Byron's response to me when I said wow you kill 2 people and everybody flips on each other. That wouldn't show in the admin log as we were In teamspeak. We made sure nothing we did was outside the rules nor In any grey area so I just want to get an explanation.

Also about 5-15 minutes prior to Byron saying we stirred things up he said, and I don't remember the exact words, either yes or I agree or maybe both. And to anybody watching our chat it would look again like he was talking to himself but over teamspeak I had said lets never go to the point of assaulting someone's base like that, it is too low. So clearly we weren't planning on doing any trolling or griefing.

And at the time of our banning we had loaded up an suv with building mats and went to build us a new base to get away from all the clan battles and I was mid-placing a wall when i was banned, so the petty base raiding and things like that were certainly not what byron and I had in mind. Just playing the game from the other side of the coin which i know ghost and them love a good bandit hunt outside of knowing that 4 ai spawn in balota and a squad of 5 in dubrovka...
Title: Re: Hugh jass and Byron
Post by: Shane on November 06, 2013, 02:03:18 AM
I would just like an explanation of why Byron and I were banned. The reason posted was we really stirred things up which was Byron's response to me when I said wow you kill 2 people and everybody flips on each other. That wouldn't show in the admin log as we were In teamspeak. We made sure nothing we did was outside the rules nor In any grey area so I just want to get an explanation.

Also about 5-15 minutes prior to Byron saying we stirred things up he said, and I don't remember the exact words, either yes or I agree or maybe both. And to anybody watching our chat it would look again like he was talking to himself but over teamspeak I had said lets never go to the point of assaulting someone's base like that, it is too low. So clearly we weren't planning on doing any trolling or griefing.

And at the time of our banning we had loaded up an suv with building mats and went to build us a new base to get away from all the clan battles and I was mid-placing a wall when i was banned, so the petty base raiding and things like that were certainly not what byron and I had in mind. Just playing the game from the other side of the coin which i know ghost and them love a good bandit hunt outside of knowing that 4 ai spawn in balota and a squad of 5 in dubrovka...


Did you blow up someones base? or something like that?
Title: Re: Hugh jass and Byron
Post by: Rojamahorse on November 06, 2013, 03:56:55 AM
Hi All,
    I thought I would chime in here.  As most already know I generally stay away from the drama, and poke fun of the 'DayZ of our Lives' soap opera moments that cause people to rage at each other.  I know personally it can be frustrating when someone stabs you in the back when you are being nice or when someone shits all over you when you are minding your own business.  That being said, I try to give myself a 1 hour maximum to be pissed off and cry about it on side chat (I usually tell the person that is suffering through my insults/berating to be aware of my 1 hour bitch session as well  >:( ).  I know I have been a bit scarce lately and haven't been logging on as much, but I have noticed since all the banditry and the new 'guests'  arrivals there has been a ton of whining, and general immaturity with name calling, and just over excess shit talking over side chat.  I'm not going to lie... I was so pissed people glitched through my base and stole my stuff, I let that guy 'ninja' have a gun to go retaliate on people with. (In my defense I knew he was a bandit, but didn't know he was wrecking havoc on people to the level he was... regardless not my proudest moment)

    I have played quite a bit with Byron & Marethyu (Hugh Jass), and I know both of them to be pretty good guys.  Yes, they did get caught up with the shit talking and base wars, and yes they did whine a bit excessively when Cason (and others I believe, maybe Ghost) were camping their base.  But I'm not sure I agree with it being worth a permanent ban.  After giving this a bit of thought, I think they were really just the straw that broke the camel's back for the Admins.  And frankly I don't blame you for being hard on them, you have to set an example of someone. I know I was getting annoyed at all the bitching and whining happening with people constantly fighting each other.  The Matty thing was another good example of this.  While I understand you folks being hard on people,  I also think it should be fair and I'm not sure Mare & Byron were even the offenders of this type of behavior.  Cason & everyone involved should also be permanently banned if thats the case. 

    With all this being said, I know Marethyu and Byron quite well, and they did tell me they liked the idea of going bandit.  But I doubt they would do unto others just to incite rage by people in the server. I know there was evidence in chat of Byron stating 'We really stirred things up', but I also know we all use a Team Speak outside of the server that Byron listens in on, but replies in chat.  So I also think its possible the information could have been taken out of context.  I'd like to see the ban lifted on Marethyu & Byron, on the premise that they have learned their lesson, and both have to start from scratch (understanding you won't replace anything from their base).  And that they and Cason's team resolve their differences with a virtual handshake and no longer retaliate against each other.  After speaking with both of them, they have had time to think about their actions and would rather play nice on the server than be banned permanently. 

    As always I won't question your judgement if you go against me on this, but I do appreciate you hearing me out as a character witness. Maybe as an adjustment to the rules maybe stating something like 'Name calling, excessive retaliation, & immaturity/whining in general can result in a 2 week  or even a month ban... gives people time to cool off. I have seen this done on other servers and I think it makes a bit of sense.

Also... Cason, Ghost, and anyone else I might have offended... please understand I like & think highly of all of you, in fact I've even rolled with you guys before.  I don't actually want you banned, I just want to point out that all of us have had moments of immaturity and lapses of judgement since all these squabbles started. 

Sorry for the novel, and keep up the great work!
Title: Re: Hugh jass and Byron
Post by: Shane on November 06, 2013, 04:48:55 AM
Yea man i agree Mare has come to me asking if I knew anything about it cause they werent getting a response. I too find them to be really good guys. When they both decided to play as bandits mare came and talked to 2yys and I about going to play bandits to spice it up. He said they wouldn't be base camping and stuff just some normal banditry. I dont really know wat they were actually banned for but I mean if jamie was allowed back on the island maybe we can give these guys a second chance as well. maybe put them on probation?
Title: Re: Hugh jass and Byron
Post by: marethyu on November 06, 2013, 03:57:45 PM
We did not blow up anybody base no
Title: Re: Hugh jass and Byron
Post by: 2yys on November 08, 2013, 12:32:41 AM
So what is going on here? I have not heard any info regarding this?
Title: Re: Hugh jass and Byron
Post by: Mike on November 08, 2013, 01:15:40 AM
We're going to chat about this between all admins tomorrow and see what can be done.

I have to say though Marethyu, the ban was for a series of events. Below is a long list - some are minor, BUT it's the combination of them all in a short period of time:

Edit: In addition to the below, you had been watched for a couple of days by admins after concerns about the name change and behaviour. You seemed to be instigating your own little war against certain players, apparently camping at their base and shooting them and their vehicles (Although you explained this was in part due to being disconnected due to internet issues whilst near their base, rather than logging out/in at their base).

This then escalated with revenge attacks against you and the server becaming much more hostile - players were put off the server because of the agro, with new players feeling this wasn't a friendly server at all.

Added to this there are the following issues:

1) Changing names when going bandit - some people didn't know you and Byron had swapped names, and you had an advantage of having played as a friendly and gaining knowledge that wouldn't have been shared to a new player - changing names  and going bandit has caused issues before

2) I told you guys in admin chat that it's okay, so long as you guys didn't swap name back or trick people - you agreed with this

3) The next day, Byron changed his name back! Not only that, but people didn't know Byron was the bandit-alt

4) Byron said it was because he didn't like being bandit (I have all chat logs), and said he wasn't playing as bandit now, and was at his base building.

5) Byron was, however, travelling with you at the time whilst you were playing as your bandit-self, and killing people. So he DID change his name back, he DID lie about being friendly and trick people, and he lied to admins (saying he was friendly & at his base, when he was a bandit, and going around with you whilst you're killing). You were both working together at the time, and both involved in the deceit as far as admins are concerned.

6) In direct chat, Byron said words to the effect "I bet he'll out us to people now!" - This WHILST saying to my in side chat that he wasn't being a bandit...

7) Next, when outed (and after sayng he didn't like playing as a bandit) Byron said in direct chat to you "Well, I guess I might as well go full bandit now!" (words to that effect)

We've had friendlies change names and go bandit, then trick people and cause hassles , and I WARNED you guys not to do this with name changes the DAY BEFORE you did this!

Sure, others may have fought back and shot at your base after etc, but the tricks and name changes - This is what has caused issues before, and so we're a bit hot on it - and I DID warn you about that!

You also admitted that you were just "bored", and "had all the game has to offer now" - And it seemed to us as admins that because of this, you lost respect for the server, and were trying your luck at not only acting like bandits, but also tricking people. Admins, looking at chat logs and what was actually happening in-game, felt that it seemed you were trying to stir up problems - The same problems we've had players saying they are going to leave the server over!

We acted to nip the issues in the bud, as it was escalating, and you didn't seem willing to stop (saying one thing to us in chat, whilst saying the opposite in direct/vehicle chat).

The final straw was indeed the "we really stirred things up" comment Byron made to you in private chat, as that seemed like exactly what you were trying to do... and we've lost players because of this kind of stirring.

I've said it before, and will no doubt say it again:

Play as a bandit OR hero = fine
Change names & trick people OR act in a way that brings the server down and helps it go a bit shitty = BANNED.

Marethyu, I know you said Byron didn't change his name back to trick anyone, however:

* He did this the day after I warned against it
* He was at the time saying:

1) He was playing as friendly
2) He said he was at his base, building

When in fact

1) Whilst saying this to be, shortly after he was saying in private chat to you that he was going to go "full bandit"
2) He was not base building as he said he was - he was travelling with you whilst you killed people - whilst still saying he was back as his friendly self.

Not only this, but you were with him at the time, playing together, and both were talking to me. I take this as both being complicit in the trickery attempt and lies which, after the previous days warning NOT to switch names and trick people contributed towards your ban.

When I asked him to clear up what was happening, he replied:

"It's complicated"

To me this is indeed name changing and tricking people, plus lying to admins about it. Same shit that's caused players to leave before, and we're NOT having that.

Although I've laid all out above, this isn't a refusal to let you back! - I'm just letting all the players know what happened, as there seems to be some confusion as to why you were banned.
Title: Re: Hugh jass and Byron
Post by: marethyu on November 08, 2013, 01:24:11 AM
I killed ghost and Cason at an event and proceeded to loot it. Then they got together and shot rockets at our base for a while killed Byron and such and blew up a few vehicles which I bitched about and when thy ran out of ammo there flew a chinook around shooin into the base killing Byron's baby(his little bird). Then there was a half hour break as the server updated and immediately upon it coming back up they began with more rockets and tried to bring a chinook into it which we dispatched along with them again but at the cost of more vehicles which I bitched more about. To be fair I probably bitched more than necessary. But then the dust settled and Byron and I loaded up an SUV with our base building supplies to get away from all the drama and have our own little place. (All the while Byron and I are in ts but he has no mic so he responds in chat). So while driving away we make and agreement to not do the base assaulting bit as that is pretty low an not just normal banditing which would be to conserve our resources at the expense of other's. At this point the server seems to be in a bit of an uproar with people being scared and killing each other and trash talking. I say to Byron via ts that wow you kill 2 people and the server goes nuts. He responds I'm vehicle chat ya we def stirred things up.    The admins keeping closer eyes on us saw this I'm chat and decided we were griefing/ plotting to grief and banned us.
Title: Re: Hugh jass and Byron
Post by: marethyu on November 08, 2013, 01:29:38 AM
And yah I know he changed his name back but also I'm pretty sure and wasn't there for the warning and I was just as surprised when I saw it. And I was a bit unfair to him I guess as he I'm not sure was 100% willing to do it and I pressured him maybe.
Title: Re: Hugh jass and Byron
Post by: marethyu on November 08, 2013, 01:42:06 AM
I'm over my phone right now so ima be a bit slow and may miss things. But I have not lost respect for the server. I played super friendly for over a month on the server and in the middle of handing away m2s to new players I was accosted by a group of players over not giving a ride immediately. I haven't lost respect for admins either you guys are the most attentive group of admins I have ever seen and have always responded promptly to any need a player had. And yes I wanted to play the other side of the coin for a bit. My name change wasn't malicious in any way( not entirely sure what Byron's deal was as I haven't been able to talk to him since). I changed my name because on the server marethyu was a bit of a household name and if people told me as marethyu where they were just so I could go kill them for their gear it wouldn't be fair. So the name change was so people wouldn't mistake me as friendly which In my opinion so more trickery than changing my name to be an unknown to everybody.
Title: Re: Hugh jass and Byron
Post by: marethyu on November 08, 2013, 01:50:12 AM
If there is a way to get on ts or something to talk it would be easier just delayed communication is rough. Even though I have had the forum up constantly on my phone checking at all hours for a response
Title: Re: Hugh jass and Byron
Post by: marethyu on November 08, 2013, 01:53:08 AM
And honestly at the ine I thought Byron meant the name change wasn't for him not bandit wasn't for him but if you are able to see the logs hindsight is 20/20 so that May have been my mistake
Title: Re: Hugh jass and Byron
Post by: Mike on November 08, 2013, 02:06:16 AM
Cool - I'll take all your comments on board, and chat to the other admins tomorrow :)

Leave it with me (2am here, lol, need sleep!).

Thanks Marethyu,

Mike.
Title: Re: Hugh jass and Byron
Post by: marethyu on November 08, 2013, 02:08:50 AM
night night
Title: Re: Hugh jass and Byron
Post by: marethyu on November 10, 2013, 01:35:42 PM
Sooooooo what's the dealio?
Title: Re: Hugh jass and Byron
Post by: Mike on November 12, 2013, 11:34:32 PM
Hi Marethyu!

Sorry for the delay! Been busy with work :( (Not even been on the server for days!).

Are you around tomorrow at around 22:30 UK time? I can be on TS then for a chat (Not sure what timezone you are in).

Re: A PM you've had with Nobody, I think the reference to a 'war' wasn't about what happened with Cason, rather it stems from admins watching you systematically attack Ghast & Nova & their group, shooting up their vehicles/helis for a couple of days or so - seemed like you were trying to get a rise from them and cause arguments etc. This was before the issues with Cason and the problem with Byron changing his name back...

So you see it was a collection of things.

One point I'd like to make is we'd only ever consider putting up a ban appeal vote when we feel the person we banned 'gets it' - As in, they fully understand why they were banned - We're more likely to pop up a vote for someone when they seem to understand why they were banned, and accept that whatever got them banned isn't acceptable on the server, rather than if someone just say's they shouldn't have been banned (No point in un-banning someone if they don't understand what they did wrong really as it will just happen again!). That message is nothing personal to you really, just something to bear in mind for our chat :D

If you can't be about at 22:30 tomorrow UK time, could you let me know a couple of other times you can be about so we can try to get a match?
Title: Re: Hugh jass and Byron
Post by: marethyu on November 13, 2013, 12:16:30 AM
22:00 uk time is like 1700 for me and tomorrow I have a class from 5:30-720(17:30-19:20 my time) I can be around before and after that though
Title: Re: Hugh jass and Byron
Post by: Bobthethurd on November 13, 2013, 10:39:30 PM

Although I've laid all out above, this isn't a refusal to let you back! - I'm just letting all the players know what happened, as there seems to be some confusion as to why you were banned.


What this looks like is a whole heaping mess of guilt by association. You stated a lot of evidence of Byron being shady, so Marethyu gets banned too? The only reason and in fact the only mention of Mareth is that he was also there.

Chiming in with the character witness report: Mareth isn't a jerk. He was trying to PVP and got banned after a whole day. Bring him back. This is silly.
Title: Re: Hugh jass and Byron
Post by: Mike on November 13, 2013, 11:45:02 PM
Hi Bob,

We don't ban lightly. He isn't banned be association, he is banned as he was witnessed breaking the rules by more than one admin. Not only the stuff with Cason etc, but also for 2 days prior to this Mare was in a mini griefing war against ghast and others, consistantly shooting at their vehicles.

Added to that he was WITH Byron when Mare was killing, Byron was saying he was friendly - Yet they were teamed, going around together. I know Marethyu say's he is confused by the whole name changing by Byron, they were in voice comms at the time and also the direct & vehicle chat did NOT seem like Mare was confused at all, with Byron saying to us me he was friendly and at his base building, Mare seeming to back him up, and all the time Mare was driving Byron around whilst killing. The banditry coupled with name changing back (the day after being warned about it) AND lying to an admin about what was happening (at the time they were together, both talking to me, NOT just Byron) IS enough for a ban.

We are however considering an appeal, but make no mistake... ANYONE who is found to be causing grief on the server, bringing it down, and putting players off will be banned. We pay for this server in both money and a (more than) considerable amount of time sorting out glitches, updates and mods, so if we feel someone is acting to bring the server down and ruin it for people, we will ban them. Period.

As for saying he was banned 'after a whole day', that's wholly wrong. He raised a red flag for several days and was monitored for a few days prior to the ban.

That said I'm trying to get Mare on TS to discuss his ban appeal.

 


Although I've laid all out above, this isn't a refusal to let you back! - I'm just letting all the players know what happened, as there seems to be some confusion as to why you were banned.


What this looks like is a whole heaping mess of guilt by association. You stated a lot of evidence of Byron being shady, so Marethyu gets banned too? The only reason and in fact the only mention of Mareth is that he was also there.

Chiming in with the character witness report: Mareth isn't a jerk. He was trying to PVP and got banned after a whole day. Bring him back. This is silly.
Title: Re: Hugh jass and Byron
Post by: Mike on November 13, 2013, 11:50:11 PM
Just a reply to one specific comment (below) - Nope. Mare was banned after being observed for several days griefing players, repeatedly going after a group with a grudge. Added to that, he was complicit in Byron's lies about being friendly.

IF players are in a team, causing grief together, YES we do ban both of them. It's important for everyone to realise this so that they don't take part in griefing. Added to that the fact that when Byron was lying to an admin in chat, Mare was with him in-game. It was a partnership and they were both up to the same thing, so both were banned.



You stated a lot of evidence of Byron being shady, so Marethyu gets banned too? The only reason and in fact the only mention of Mareth is that he was also there.

Title: Re: Hugh jass and Byron
Post by: Mike on November 14, 2013, 08:51:45 PM
Ban appeal now up, and you can vote here: http://www.petuniaserver.com/should-marethyu-be-allowed-back-on-the-server/ (http://www.petuniaserver.com/should-marethyu-be-allowed-back-on-the-server/)

Thread closed :)